This is Our Game and our Forum.

[TheRedNeck]

hehe yep it makes sense,and like i said im old enough to see it happening.the weather paterns have definetly changed in the last 35yrs,its getting much worse to the south,tornadoes,huricanes snow and cold,and were getting much less snow in the north,some yrs we get brown christmas no snow,or verry little and the chinooks melt it right away.i look at the columbia ice fields and the glacier about 3hrs away from where i live and they have shrank a considerable amount since i used to go there as a child.theyve receeded by hundreds of feet it seems when i look at it now as compared to 30 yrs ago its much much smaller

[TheRedNeck]

hmm and the province i live in doesnt help matters much,12hrs north of me you get into the oil sands mines,these mines are something to behold in person,ive worked in them in the winter chasing drilling rigs all over creation taking core samples to plot the mines ore potential.they say were the biggest environmental abusers on the planet and trust me when you actually see it first hand and work it,i gota tell ya once you see that mess you really wonder if the pay cheques worth it some of these mines cover a area the size of some states in the USA and rock trucks so big there like driving a 4plex apartment building

[DiannaDark]

scientists don't really know a lot, every 50 years or so they have to throw the books out with all their genius ideas of everything out and write new ones

probably my idea about the dinosaurs can be proven or disproved about as easily as their's can

if anything mankind is doing can actively affect the weather, it is our HAARP Weather Weapon, if it can't affect the weather, cause horrible weather patterns, like ice and snow storms all across North America, create hurricanes, like huge monster storms that slam into the Eastern United States, and cause earthquakes, like the recent ones near Japan, it sure is a horrible waste of money

[Azmeera]

scientists don't really know a lot, every 50 years or so they have to throw the books out with all their genius ideas of everything out and write new ones

That's not technically true. It depends how good the science is. Yes, they keep discovering new things and changing and refining theories, but a lot of what they knew before is still true. Gravity and acceleration, for example. As we come up with new ways to observe, collect data, and test hypotheses, of course we're going to discover new things. That's good. If my grandfather had lived about three more years, he would have gone from living in the time of horses and carriages as the primary family form of travel to seeing us put men on the moon. That's a LOT of science discovered in just under seventy years. Saying they "don't know a lot" may be somewhat dismissive. There IS a lot we don't know, but we're learning a lot all the time.

One of the things that does concern me is that a lot of Americans (and I'm limiting this to Americans only because that's the culture I'm most familiar with. It's quite possibly true of others.) don't really understand what the scientific process is. They accept pseudo-science and bad science.

Anyways... To wander back to global warming, there's quite a bit we can prove. The greenhouse effect is pretty well understood. Essentially certain gasses in the Earth's atmosphere trap infrared radiation, making the planet warmer. It's called the greenhouse effect because you can see the same effect occur in a greenhouse-that's why they're so warm. The most important of those gasses are water vapor, carbon dioxide, and methane. When there's more of those gasses in the air, the air holds more heat. This is something that can and has been observed and measured repeatedly in scientific experiments. More of those gasses = more heat trapped.

Without the greenhouse gas effect, scientists estimate that the Earth's average temperature would be around -18 or -19 degrees Celsius (0 or 1 degrees Fahrenheit). Because of the greenhouse effect, the Earth's actual average temperature is 14 degrees Celsius (57 degrees Fahrenheit).

However, the greenhouse effect is becoming stronger. This is something that has been distinctly measurable over the past 150 years. Many scientists believe it is because we are burning fossil fuels, which is adding CO2 to the atmosphere. Going back to the greenhouse effect, we know if we add carbon dioxide, it's going to increase the effect and make things warmer.

And the thing is, they can measure how much CO2 has been added. It's a LOT. A lot more than can be explained by nature or by the planet's natural warming or cooling cycles. I'm too lazy to look it up right now, but I will if you want.

One last thing before I go and feed my cat. I found this brief explanation and kind of liked it:

By Kevin Trenberth, head of the Climate Analysis Section, National Center for Atmospheric Research, Boulder, US:
The Earth is habitable because of a natural greenhouse effect brought about mainly by water vapor (60%) and carbon dioxide (26%). Otherwise its average temperature would be below zero Fahrenheit. Humans are altering the composition of the atmosphere, mainly by burning fossil fuels. As a result carbon dioxide has gone up over 35% since pre-industrial times and over half of that is since 1970. This changes the greenhouse effect and traps radiation that would otherwise escape to space, producing warming. The warming is manifested in many ways, not just increasing surface temperatures, but also melting ice, and changing the hydrological cycle and thus rainfall. Since 1970 the effects are large enough to be outside the bounds of natural variability for global mean temperatures, but global warming does not mean inexorable increases in temperature year after year owing to natural variability.
source: http://simpleclimate.wordpress.com/2010/11/24/pick-the-best-simple-climate-change-explanation/

[DiannaDark]

Comments removed.

[Azmeera]

Except that HAARP (which is a research station located in Alaska, for anyone else reading this) doesn't have the power or range you seem to think it does. It's fantastic fodder for conspiracy theorists, though. If it's bad and it's happened since about 1990, someone has blamed it on HAARP.

We could make redneck wear a tinfoil hat just to be safe, of course. I mean, he's probably the closest of us to HAARP and its rumored "mind control" abilities. How do you feel about tinfoil hats, redneck?

[DiannaDark]

Comments removed.

[TheRedNeck]

well canadians and canadian culture in general were more likely do listen to and believe what the science and scientists are reporting and telling us,were nowhere near like a lot of evengelical types in the states forreen:most part we dont take things like religion literally we look at it as more phillosophy ,and we accept the science as actual fact and dont let lobyists cloud our judgement,we know the corporations are always trying to blow smoke up our asses and we know there the true cause of all the pollution and climate change, ITS A PROVEN FACT

[Azmeera]

I'm not saying I trust the government. I'm saying you're attributing abilities to a research station that it doesn't have. The science doesn't support it. It would take a lot more power than HAARP has to have the ability to excite the ionosphere enough to affect the weather in fairly significant ways in the atmosphere in an area near its location, much less in the Lower 48.

That said, let's switch to another topic because I've pretty much learned that trying to debate with anyone who believes in conspiracy theories feels like pounding my head into a brick wall. You'll probably feel the same way about trying to discuss with me. We can agree to disagree.

So... What shape should redneck's tinfoil hat take? We could shape it into a Viking helmet... oooo! Or a swan! Redneck, would you like to wear a tinfoil swan on your head?

[TheRedNeck]

[size=150]muhaha forget the tinfoil i like the fancy x-mas wraping foil im not sure about this harp thing but the type of change we see happening is something thats taken about 100 yrs to happen and now that its starting to take effect its like its goin into high gear and like we all know to just outlaw certain types of energy all at once would destroy the economies of some states or provinces ie: banning all coal burning powerplants,getting rid of oil sands production and so forth,but this kind of hurt goes along with progress.when the auto mfrg brought in all the robots and computerized everything they were mass lay offs still are,but this is the price.we can reverse this shit but its gonna take the fortitude to get rid of these industries and ppl in these regions are just gonna have to be re-educated to do different stuff for employment its that simple,and its gonna hurt for a while for yrs actually but they will rebound.california already started they refuse to buy any power that comes from coal fired power plants and more of this is on the way.and dont even get me goin on the fracking issue,the contamination they leave behind,the shear amounts of water they waste pumping it in the ground to force out the natural gas its crazy.all the oil company lobyists telling us its safe,haha we can smell what there shovellin.none of these ppl can see past there next election term,and couldnt care less about the next generation or 2 that are gonna get stuck with all the mess.for me working in the oil sands ill never go up there again,this tech should be the last resort to get oil when everthing else is used up,not mainstream everyday shit.[/size]